Mr. Simpson, “I hate to say this, but since we know that there’s such a big discrepancy. It would be very easy, If nobody knows what’s going on, it would be very easy to, you know. If nobody knows where did the money go?”
The Codes Department software is not compatible with the finance software.
This is a slightly abbreviated transcription of the second half of Thursday evening’s Coatesville City Council’s budget hearing meeting:
Mr. Hamrick, “If the code is 33627 and they go over to the accounting side and pay the bill, that’s what it should be 36237. So that Mr. Molina’s group will get credited for it. It shouldn’t be a different number. Why are they different numbers? It’s just like the coding for doctors; everyone has a separate code, for billing and all the way through finance. There shouldn’t be two different codes.”
Mr. Simpson, “It just gets extremely frustrating for us to hear the same things every year that my system doesn’t work with that system and this system doesn’t work with their system. We don’t know. We’re not sure. It’s not positive…"
Mr. Reed, “Mr. Molina I believe has been certified that we have in the budget for a new program that is compatible with the 4Gov finance program…We had a consultant that did come in and look at both sides and came to the conclusion that they are not compatible…"
Mr. Hamrick, “Finance will keep theirs.”
Mr. Simpson, “So Code will change theirs” (software).
Mr. Molina, “Codes will finally get its own… that is compatible..”
Mr. Hamrick, “So you’re projecting $65,000.”
Mr. Molina, “Well that’s what finance is projecting. I think we’re pretty close to that right now."
Mr. Simpson, “Ok so you’re good with that number $65,000.”
Mr. Molina, “That’s correct.”
Mr. Hamrick, “But I understand here it says year to date $15,200.
Mr. Molina, “No, two systems, just Roymar Hall brought in $24,000.”
Later at 3:56 on this recording:
Mr. Reed, “Again this $32,000 that shows up for the year, I don’t think that number’s correct because we’re showing more in the Codes Office. They can print out a monthly report just like Finance does. Their numbers are higher than what Finance is.”
Mr. Simpson, “So let me ask you this then; If Finance is showing $32,000 and you’re showing that you collected…let’s say $60,000. Where’s that extra money go?”
Mr. Reed, “Gooood question.”
Mr. Molina, “Good question.”
Mr. Simpson, “It’s just out and nobody knows where it’s at.”
Ms. Bjorhus, “Ms. Proctor and I on two different occasions had records that didn’t match, they did not match. Ms. Proctor suggested that sometimes they hold them until the permits come in till all the licensed subcontractors and there’s that monthly delay where they put the money in right away and the Finance doesn’t get it until a month or two… (Mr. Molina, under his breath, “So they say.”) and we have been unable to reconcile the two records.”
Ms. Jorgenson, “That’s very enlightening, so what we’re really saying is, you’re the cash, he’s the accrual. That’s what this is so, like you guys are issuing these permits that are…”
Mr. Molina, “We don’t issue permits; we don’t issue permits until they’re paid. We may process them, but we don’t issue them until they’re paid.
Mr. Simpson, “So once they’re paid, who do they pay?
Mr. Molina, “They pay Finance.”
Mr. Simpson, “Ok, So if you have a permit that’s $1000. Ok and it goes over to Finance. So you’re saying you have records indicating that let’s say you’re permits were $60,000 for the year."
Mr. Molina, “Right.”
Mr. Simpson, “Finance has records saying no it’s only $32,000. My question is, where’s the $28,000?”
Mr. Molina, “We can show you the number of permits we issue and the value amount and that would give you a total accountability of what we brought in. And if you go into our office right now you may find only a handful of permits that have not been issued. All the rest have been issued."
Mr. Simpson, “I understand that, I understand that and we’re going by what you say you’ve actually issued.”
Mr. Molina, “Right”.
Mr. Simpson, “What you say you’ve actually issued is more than what Finance is saying they've collected.”
Mr. Molina, “That’s correct.”
Mr. Simpson, “But you don’t issue until it’s paid.”
Mr. Molina, “That’s correct.”
Mr. Simpson, “It’s being paid in Finance. I don’t care even if you have two systems that don’t talk to each other. They still got to be the same.”
Ms. Bjorhus, "I also would like to get to the point where we’re very, very close maybe not exact but very close.”
Mr. Simpson, “Well, I’d like to get there soon. To me it doesn’t take rocket science to figure it out. If you’re saying you got $60,000 and she’s saying you have $32,000 there’s $28,000 that we don’t know where it’s at.”
Mr. Molina, “Mr. Simpson, at least from my end I’m comfortable with my figures. I’m comfortable what my staff did.”
Mr. Simpson, “Because, you’re saying that you don’t document or issue until they get paid.”
Mr. Molina, “That’s correct.”
Mr. Molina, “We’re about $160,000 year to date; somewhere around there…We’re at about $170,000."
Mr. Simpson, “As far as those numbers that have been entered, we can’t really change them if he’s saying one thing and she’s saying another thing. You know what I’m saying?” We can’t adjust it because, if he’s saying he’s got $60,000, he’s got documentation, hypothetically $60,000 and she’s only showing $32,000. And it he’s got documentation for $60 we can’t say no let’s keep it at $32."
Mr. Hamrick, “But where’s the other money?”
Mr. Molina, “I don’t have the money.”
Mr. Hamrick, "It’s like when somebody gets a permit, to do some work for their house… I went to Finance, I paid for it. You issued me my permit."
Mr. Molina, “And we record the amount.”
Mr. Hamrick, “And you recorded the amount. Where did my $25.00 go? That’s what I want to know. Where’d it go? Because it sure as hell didn’t get put into Finance.”
Mr. Simpson, “I hate to say this, but since we know that there’s such a big discrepancy. It would be very easy, If nobody knows what’s going on, it would be very easy to, you know. If nobody knows where did the money go?”
Mr. Hamrick, “It could be going out the door for all we know.”
Ms. Jones, “Or it’s a ghost.”
Ms. Jorgenson, “So what is it that you guys think you’ve collected this year?”
Mr. Molina, “Ms. Jorgenson, “I’ll be happy to give you a print out. We’re up to date and I believe it’s quite accurate. But I don’t think these figures do justice.”
Mr. Simpson, “I guess my point is that if you’re not reconciling and it’s matching every day there’s obviously an opportunity for that money to just disappear. And with what you’ve provided, the information that you’ve provided to the press last week, I’d be one of the first places that I would look. And I’d try to get it settled and get to where… You went to the press and said there’s $160,000 that you think is missing somewhere.”
Mr. Hamrick, “It should be reconciled. His department and the cashier should reconcile."
Ms. Bjorhus explained that the two systems would not enable them to reconcile the Codes and cashier. It was too cumbersome and a very slow process.
Mr. Simpson, “So what are we doing now?”
Ms. Bjorhus, “It’s the same old same old. They go to the Codes window they get the paperwork go to Finance, they pay, and they go back to Codes and get their paperwork."
Mr. Molina, “The process is not that unusual. That happens the same way in other municipalities.”
Mr. Hamrick, “I understand that. What I’m saying at the end of the day the cash window should reconcile with your department. For the trash fee, it should reconcile for that day’s business.”
Mr. Molina, “That’s correct.”
Mr. Hamrick, “It cannot wait until tomorrow. It’s got to be done during the day’s business hours. It’s closing. It’s got to reconcile. If it doesn't…"
Mr. Simpson, “Then it’s a problem.”
Mr. Hamrick, “We’ve got to find that money. Where’s it going, out the door?”
Mr. Simpson, “I hate to say it but it seems like we have this cavalier attitude, it’s like, well we’re working to try and fix it. But you know what; you said earlier in the year, you tried to do it earlier in the year. Well it’s now November. We need a fix. Well it seems, Ms. Bjorhus, it’s between the Finance and the Codes and the Codes has their stuff and when it comes over to you it seems to disappear. So to me it seems like it’s on the Finance end of it. We need a solution and we need it now."
Mr. Simpson, “Is there like a time when that window shuts down before you leave at the end of the day?”
Mr. Molina, “It shuts down at 5 o’clock.”
Mr. Simpson, “And what time do they leave in there?”
Mr. Molina, “The clerical staff leaves at 5 o’clock.”
Mr. Simpson, “OK, so when they’re done, technically at the end of the day, it doesn’t get reconciled until the following morning. It doesn’t get sent over to the Finance office. Correct?”
Ms. Bjorhus said that they close at 4:30 but a half hour is usually not enough time to process a batch and she processes it immediately the next day. There are also issues of waiting for checks to clear.
Ms. Jones, “Ms. Bjorhus, I’m not a mathematician but say he gives you a day’s work. Twenty five, whatever it is applications how long do you think it would take you to add those figures yourself?”
Ms. Bjorhus, “Ten minutes.”
Ms. Jones, “Ten minutes, OK and do you think in that time you could come up with the same figures he does? The same figures that you turned over there.”
Ms. Bjorhus, “The dollars.”
Ms. Jones, “So maybe he should have a cutoff time, have his work done. Have a cutoff time by say 4 o’clock. You get the figures over there. You could have them done before the day is over… How many people’s hands does that money pass through?”
Ms. Bjorhus answer was three people.
Mr. Simpson, “I guess my point is that if you’re not reconciling and it’s matching every day there’s obviously an opportunity for that money to just disappear. And with what you’ve provided, the information that you’ve provided to the press last week, I’d be one of the first places that I would look. And I’d try to get it settled and get to where… You went to the press and said there’s $160,000 that you think is missing somewhere.”
Ms. Bjorhus, “Well that was in the audit.”
Mr. Simpson, “So if the audit says there’s $160,000 and we don’t know where it’s at. And now you have an opportunity where these two aren’t matching. I would start there and say, well let’s get this fixed first. Because the longer we go the more opportunity there is for someone to abuse the system."
Ms. Bjorhus, “And additionally, I think Mr. Molina if you ran the daily totals with his MyGov system. He I think would always have more because the process without payment.”
Mr. Molina, “But that’s, we have to do that. That’s the only way we can begin the process.”
Mr. Simpson, “But at the end of the day you know what the actual cash transfer is.”
Mr. Molina, “We can make that distinction.”
Mr. Simpson, “You can make that adjustment. Let’s say you could have $1,500 in permits pending and out of that $1,500, because you started the process you actually took in cash that was $1000 that day. You would be able to distinguish between the two. Correct?”
Mr. Molina, “That’s correct.”
Mr. Simpson, “That you have $1,000 in cash and $1,500 pending. So they’re going to get something for $1,500 so they should know that $500 is pending and $1,000 is cash because…"
Mr. Molina, “But they’re not picking that up.”
Mr. Reed, “They would only get $1,000.”
Mr. Simpson, “Which makes it even easier. Because you’re saying the numbers that you have here are actual cash that you’ve handled.”
Mr. Molina, “That’s right.”
Mr. Simpson, “You may have another $20,000 in pending stuff that you haven’t included in these numbers.”
Ms. Jorgenson, “But is that a distinction that you make today?”
Mr. Molina, “No, no that’s the way the system operates. We don’t make that distinction.”
Ms. Jorgenson, “You can take a look at it and say this is work in process and this is actually, this is what’s accrued.”
